[Goalie]

I'd just like to acknowledge the one point Air Wales made; updating things that do not need any updating whatsoever.

If Jagex would have done this, we would still be in RuneScape Classic. When I used to play Runescape 1, everyone thought that the game was splendid, and didn't think that we needed a new game, or RuneScape 2 as it was called. Nothing needs to be updated, yet they update things to keep things fresh and improve the game.

[Master Elf]

I want to see a huge new continent added. And I really want a new graphics update so that Runescape looks much better than it already does in HD. Surround-sound support with better music and sounds will be nice to have as well.

I don't care for new quests, skills, or items as much because I haven't even come in contact with many items and quests and have a long way to go to get high levels on existing skills.

[Air Wales]

Goalie, on 13 December 2009 - 12:06 AM, said:

I'd just like to acknowledge the one point Air Wales made; updating things that do not need any updating whatsoever.

If Jagex would have done this, we would still be in RuneScape Classic. When I used to play Runescape 1, everyone thought that the game was splendid, and didn't think that we needed a new game, or RuneScape 2 as it was called. Nothing needs to be updated, yet they update things to keep things fresh and improve the game.

Very true, an update can be good for the game. Yet I see a vital difference between your expample and today's updates. When they released RS2, RSC was still open untill 2006 (2 years after RS2 was opened to public). Players could actually choose what game they wanted to play. I can't choose what updates I get. So i'm getting the feeling im supposed to like any update Jagex throws at me and shut up. But that's a bit off my point I think. My initial thought was just don't update things that everybody is already more than happy about. Remember, just because something is new doesn't always mean it's better.

[Chubaka114]

Air Wales, on 13 December 2009 - 11:32 AM, said:

Remember, just because something is new doesn't always mean it's better.

Yes it does, if it wasn't a good or better skill or improvement. They wouldn't even take into consideration of adding it to the game.
Also how would you know if the other skills are "Crap". Seeing as how you only know how to train one skill and nothing else. You never
even gave the other skills a chance you hypocrite.

[Air Wales]

Chubaka114, on 13 December 2009 - 03:11 PM, said:

Air Wales, on 13 December 2009 - 11:32 AM, said:

Remember, just because something is new doesn't always mean it's better.

Yes it does, if it wasn't a good or better skill or improvement. They wouldn't even take into consideration of adding it to the game.
Also how would you know if the other skills are "Crap". Seeing as how you only know how to train one skill and nothing else. You never
even gave the other skills a chance you hypocrite.

Due to previous arguments we've had, and lack of respect you have for me I refuse to debate over your weak arguments. I do however, strongly encourge you to grow up and stop bugging me for your efforts not only fail, but also make me pity you.

Thank you.

[Goalie]

Air Wales, on 13 December 2009 - 03:32 AM, said:

Very true, an update can be good for the game. Yet I see a vital difference between your expample and today's updates. When they released RS2, RSC was still open untill 2006 (2 years after RS2 was opened to public). Players could actually choose what game they wanted to play. I can't choose what updates I get. So i'm getting the feeling im supposed to like any update Jagex throws at me and shut up. But that's a bit off my point I think. My initial thought was just don't update things that everybody is already more than happy about. Remember, just because something is new doesn't always mean it's better.

Yes, but the change from RuneScape to RuneScape 2 is the biggest update of all time, and of course an amount of people (myself included) really disliked the new game at the time. Since RuneScape Classic is what brought the game to initial popularity, I'm sure Jagex didn't think it would be right to throw the entire game away, which is why they kept it open until 2006, and re-opened this year.

Smaller updates are a different subject. If they made every single update optional, imagine how many toggle buttons would be needed to be added to the game, with not enough use of the majority of the RuneScape population. That being said, I'd like to hear some of your examples of updates that have not been good in the long-run of RuneScape.

[Chubaka114]

Air Wales, on 13 December 2009 - 05:57 PM, said:

Chubaka114, on 13 December 2009 - 03:11 PM, said:

Air Wales, on 13 December 2009 - 11:32 AM, said:

Remember, just because something is new doesn't always mean it's better.

Yes it does, if it wasn't a good or better skill or improvement. They wouldn't even take into consideration of adding it to the game.
Also how would you know if the other skills are "Crap". Seeing as how you only know how to train one skill and nothing else. You never
even gave the other skills a chance you hypocrite.

Due to previous arguments we've had, and lack of respect you have for me I refuse to debate over your weak arguments. I do however, strongly encourge you to grow up and stop bugging me for your efforts not only fail, but also make me pity you.

Thank you.

You shouldn't even have a say in this thread especially when your calling all skills but firemaking crap.
Just because you are stuck in a rut and can only click on a log then a tinderbox doesn't mean the other skills suck.
Anyways don't judge a skill until you actually have a decent level in it. Which by the way doesn't apply to you.

[Air Wales]

Goalie, on 13 December 2009 - 10:58 PM, said:

Yes, but the change from RuneScape to RuneScape 2 is the biggest update of all time, and of course an amount of people (myself included) really disliked the new game at the time. Since RuneScape Classic is what brought the game to initial popularity, I'm sure Jagex didn't think it would be right to throw the entire game away, which is why they kept it open until 2006, and re-opened this year.

Smaller updates are a different subject. If they made every single update optional, imagine how many toggle buttons would be needed to be added to the game, with not enough use of the majority of the RuneScape population. That being said, I'd like to hear some of your examples of updates that have not been good in the long-run of RuneScape.

I agree on the fact that you cannot make everything optional (which I never suggested). I would like to return to my original thought (because I feel we're getting off topic) of not updating things people are already more than happy about. If you necessarily want small updates just look on the suggestion forum. Anyway, you can have a look at this list of updates which I personally didn't find good in the long run. Because I think you will almost fully dissagree, I chose not to put a reason behind them for now. Do ask if you like (because I like a healthy debate )

Font update
Interface update
Soul War
Stealing creation
Ivy
Run energy update
Quick Chat

[AlchemyHawk]

Air Wales, on 14 December 2009 - 08:55 AM, said:

Goalie, on 13 December 2009 - 10:58 PM, said:

Yes, but the change from RuneScape to RuneScape 2 is the biggest update of all time, and of course an amount of people (myself included) really disliked the new game at the time. Since RuneScape Classic is what brought the game to initial popularity, I'm sure Jagex didn't think it would be right to throw the entire game away, which is why they kept it open until 2006, and re-opened this year.

Smaller updates are a different subject. If they made every single update optional, imagine how many toggle buttons would be needed to be added to the game, with not enough use of the majority of the RuneScape population. That being said, I'd like to hear some of your examples of updates that have not been good in the long-run of RuneScape.

I agree on the fact that you cannot make everything optional (which I never suggested). I would like to return to my original thought (because I feel we're getting off topic) of not updating things people are already more than happy about. If you necessarily want small updates just look on the suggestion forum. Anyway, you can have a look at this list of updates which I personally didn't find good in the long run. Because I think you will almost fully dissagree, I chose not to put a reason behind them for now. Do ask if you like (because I like a healthy debate )

Font update
Interface update
Soul War
Stealing creation
Ivy
Run energy update
Quick Chat

Fonts I think could be option-able actually, but I really hate when people over-react to fonts (had some freidns nearly quit just because of the font lol).
Interfaces what is the big deal? Just a tiny picture.
Soul Wars I am not sure about, I see good and bad points on both sides: however I can definitely see why you dislike it.
Stealing Creation is perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it. Takes just as much if not more time to train, but lessens the cost, this mini-game is fine
People don't really get that Ivy is barely faster then teaks, they are practically the same experience per hour. There isn't anything wrong with Ivy, the only reason I use it is because I hate dropping logs (same xp/hour even with dropping logs I just hate actually doing it).
You mean resting & musicians? These are awesome!
If you were muted, wouldn't you like to be able to talk?
-------
Wow these aren't the updates I thought you would use to prove your point.
Because really the only one I agree with is Soul Wars.

[Goalie]

I understand what you dislike the most Air Wales, when skills are made easier. It's a valid point which has already come up in previous topics. Although I wouldn't say that's a reason to say only update areas which are broken, or need updates, because in my mind there's nothing that needs updating, although the game needs to update even perfectly fine areas to maintain their player-base.

[Air Wales]

AlchemyHawk, on 14 December 2009 - 09:25 PM, said:

Fonts I think could be option-able actually, but I really hate when people over-react to fonts (had some freidns nearly quit just because of the font lol).

Opinioned. IMO, it doesn't go with the theme of the game. I still laugh about the fact that they changed Q P and W because of the small kids.

AlchemyHawk, on 14 December 2009 - 09:25 PM, said:

Interfaces what is the big deal? Just a tiny picture.

See above. Opinion

AlchemyHawk, on 14 December 2009 - 09:25 PM, said:

Soul Wars I am not sure about, I see good and bad points on both sides: however I can definitely see why you dislike it.
Stealing Creation is perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it. Takes just as much if not more time to train, but lessens the cost, this mini-game is fine

Mini game fine, rewards make the skill easier. Grind the mini game for a few days and you will get a hard to reach level within half the time you normally would.

AlchemyHawk, on 14 December 2009 - 09:25 PM, said:

People don't really get that Ivy is barely faster then teaks, they are practically the same experience per hour. There isn't anything wrong with Ivy, the only reason I use it is because I hate dropping logs (same xp/hour even with dropping logs I just hate actually doing it).

Teak is 85 xp compared to Ivy's 332.5 xp. You're not in such a remoted area as you are with ivy.

AlchemyHawk, on 14 December 2009 - 09:25 PM, said:

You mean resting & musicians? These are awesome!

Agility is awsome too.

AlchemyHawk, on 14 December 2009 - 09:25 PM, said:

If you were muted, wouldn't you like to be able to talk?
Why would I want to break rules in the first place?

You break rules, you get punished. Very simple.

AlchemyHawk, on 14 December 2009 - 09:25 PM, said:

Wow these aren't the updates I thought you would use to prove your point.
Because really the only one I agree with is Soul Wars.

Had no trouble finding counter arguments though. But it's still called a General Discussion You don't have to agree with me. As a closing quote:

AlchemyHawk, on 12 December 2009 - 04:21 PM, said:

However there isn't much point in arguing an opinion based topic,so I won't be criticizing all your issues.

Thought you would stick to your word

Goalie, on 15 December 2009 - 01:31 AM, said:

I understand what you dislike the most Air Wales, when skills are made easier. It's a valid point which has already come up in previous topics. Although I wouldn't say that's a reason to say only update areas which are broken, or need updates, because in my mind there's nothing that needs updating, although the game needs to update even perfectly fine areas to maintain their player-base.

True, but when you have players (alot of them) complaining about things which are broken, I would think that they would solve that before try out to renew something (for whichever reason). Updates are not needed when everything is perfect, but they can add new things in-game which they think people will enjoy.
If they do renew something can't they at least come up with something better than changing something as silly as fonts. I opened up the skill sugestion forum and the first thing I saw was: Underwater fishing. That's not only sounds interesting but very original too! Why can't they spend their time more wisely than updating fonts which people are either going to flame over or not notice?

[AlchemyHawk]

@Ivy: Sure Ivy is more experience each cut then teaks but it is the experience an hour that matters. Rocktail give a massive 380 experience per catch and barbarian fishing only gives 80 experinece for leaping sturgeon yet barbarian fishing is nearly twice as fast. As for for it not being remote what is wrong with that? Otherwise if Ivy gives the same experience rate who would use it? It doesn't make the skill any faster.

Did they say it was because of small kids specifically? If they did that is fine but I hate it when people just assume they know why somebody did something without actually knowing the real reason.

@Agility: It is very helpful to still have agility, 99 agility you never have to spot and rest even if you are constantly (I heard) which is a bonus. Resting takes time so walking is only a bit slower. In PvP/Mini-games/Monster killing etc you can't stop and rest which leaves the player with the higher level agility with the advantage. Musicians are great because they are spread out and I can just get places faster, who wants to spend the whole game walking? It isn't going to boast your skills a million by getting to places 30 seconds faster.

@Quick Chat: I very much disagree. Do people never get second chances? What is wrong with it anyway? How does helping out a muted person make the game that much worse for you? I have plenty of friends who are perfectly nice people but just made a mistake with their language one day are now pure muted.

@My Word: That is before Goalie brought up a different perspective and such. The way we were discussing before it was all opinions now there are still opinions but facts too.

[ald]

Alchemy I don't think you have played long enough to dislike these new updates. You have had them from pretty much the beginning. Many skills have recently been changed to make them way easier and faster. The stats of your account took me probably about 2 or 3 times as long as you have played to achieved because the game has changed so much. No offense against you.

Stuff you said had no problems..

Wc - The people who got 99 dropping or banking logs vs some one today afking for 100 hours the same thing? You don't see a problem with it because you have not spend many days training it, to you its just faster xp when you get it up.

Agil - Being able to run around pretty much non stop these days is a huge difference compared to how old agility worked. This effected a lot more than getting some where quicker. Makes to many things to name quicker and easier.

Fishing - You call someone fishing in shilo (or barb) for very little pay similar to someone now making 60m from 90 to 99 where you might only spend double time? Rocktail is faster xp and more money then monks and sharks. I don't see why something would get both.

Fonts - No say.

Soul wars - Standing around or killing real people and getting huge amounts of xp or old way, having to kill monsters and pay attention or don't get xp are not even closely related. This update made combat way to easy to level up.

Stealing creations - Getting to play a mini game then go level your skills in half the time and for half the price. What if you achieved 60 to 99 smithing then the day after sc comes out and you could of saved half your money and time on that? Double xp fail.

Interface - No say.

Quick chat - I was muted for 10 months and I had no quick chat. I broke the rules and I had to deal with it. Now after a certain time period your marks get removed, that is not good enough?


Everything has been getting easier and or quicker and I don't understand why. Not that I don't like this, but when you spend so much on something for just after it to become easier is a disappointment. Everything overall is just a kick in the face for people who had to train skills the old way.

[Goalie]

Rather than going in to specific updates that are completely opinionated, I will go with the specific discussion at hand. Air Wales, I'm starting to appreciate your points now. New and interesting things such as (Underwater Fishing) would be great ways to improve the game. At the same time, who says they aren't adding original and interesting content as we speak? As a whole, small and large updates are both healthy for the improvement of the game, which is why they spend time tweaking certain smaller aspects of the game with each content release.

[Air Wales]

AlchemyHawk, on 16 December 2009 - 01:30 AM, said:

@Ivy: Sure Ivy is more experience each cut then teaks but it is the experience an hour that matters. Rocktail give a massive 380 experience per catch and barbarian fishing only gives 80 experinece for leaping sturgeon yet barbarian fishing is nearly twice as fast. As for for it not being remote what is wrong with that? Otherwise if Ivy gives the same experience rate who would use it? It doesn't make the skill any faster.

The facts don't lie, more and more people are getting 99 Woodcutting after the update so it would be ignorant to believe Ivy didn't have to do anything with it. And because Ivy's grow in or near towns you get to talk to people unlike teaks.

AlchemyHawk, on 16 December 2009 - 01:30 AM, said:

Did they say it was because of small kids specifically? If they did that is fine but I hate it when people just assume they know why somebody did something without actually knowing the real reason.

Are you questioning logics here? If they only changed Q P W, and if those are the only letters with which the male genital could be pictures in the chat window, doesn't it make it quite obvious that they changed it for that reason? If they didn't intend on doing this I would assume they would just renew the whole font.

AlchemyHawk, on 16 December 2009 - 01:30 AM, said:

@Agility: It is very helpful to still have agility, 99 agility you never have to spot and rest even if you are constantly (I heard) which is a bonus. Resting takes time so walking is only a bit slower. In PvP/Mini-games/Monster killing etc you can't stop and rest which leaves the player with the higher level agility with the advantage. Musicians are great because they are spread out and I can just get places faster, who wants to spend the whole game walking? It isn't going to boast your skills a million by getting to places 30 seconds faster.

Way to go on ruining agility for skillers there. Who wants to spend the whole game walking? That's what the Agility skill was designed for!

AlchemyHawk, on 16 December 2009 - 01:30 AM, said:

@Quick Chat: I very much disagree. Do people never get second chances? What is wrong with it anyway? How does helping out a muted person make the game that much worse for you? I have plenty of friends who are perfectly nice people but just made a mistake with their language one day are now pure muted.

"Everybody makes mistake, and people can learn from mistakes. That's why we've decided to make offences expire after one year" -Jagex

If you care about your account you won't break rules in the first place. If you do, you get a short 24 hour mute. Big deal. Learn from it and get on with playing.

AlchemyHawk, on 16 December 2009 - 01:30 AM, said:

@My Word: That is before Goalie brought up a different perspective and such. The way we were discussing before it was all opinions now there are still opinions but facts too.

The only facts here are the updates themselves. But okay, since your joining in:

ald, on 16 December 2009 - 03:28 AM, said:

Everything has been getting easier and or quicker and I don't understand why. Not that I don't like this, but when you spend so much on something for just after it to become easier is a disappointment. Everything overall is just a kick in the face for people who had to train skills the old way.

Goalie, on 16 December 2009 - 05:59 AM, said:

Rather than going in to specific updates that are completely opinionated, I will go with the specific discussion at hand. Air Wales, I'm starting to appreciate your points now. New and interesting things such as (Underwater Fishing) would be great ways to improve the game. At the same time, who says they aren't adding original and interesting content as we speak? As a whole, small and large updates are both healthy for the improvement of the game, which is why they spend time tweaking certain smaller aspects of the game with each content release.

The new slayer master was indeed quite an unsuspected (and pleasant) suprise. Also the quests just help the game grow every time and expand the game's storyline. I do admit that you changed my opinion regarding the smaller updates, they are needed to improve some small things (monk robe for example). I still believe they should maintain a healthy margin between the update and theme of the game (like putting futuristic fonts instead of the current fonts just to name a silly example). If that balance is found then everyone will be able to enjoy the update

[AlchemyHawk]

I realized from Goalie's post basically all of our debate was still opinion, so I don't see a reason to continue it...for now.

@Aldorug: Sorry but offence taken. I don't really care if I am "new" or what not. I am sick of old players who are supposed to be veteran players that constantly hate on the game, it really bugs me. And in saying that I don't understand because I always had it easy is unfair in an argument like this. So basically the person from the draynor that player first wins because they can say it was easier for them and everyone else doesn't understand?

[ald]

AlchemyHawk, on 16 December 2009 - 08:05 AM, said:

@Aldorug: Sorry but offence taken. I don't really care if I am "new" or what not. I am sick of old players who are supposed to be veteran players that constantly hate on the game, it really bugs me. And in saying that I don't understand because I always had it easy is unfair in an argument like this. So basically the person from the draynor that player first wins because they can say it was easier for them and everyone else doesn't understand?

I tell you to count to 1000. Then I tell the new guy to count to 1000 by 10s. I don't see why a skill would get changed in speed or money by so much. To max an account today is similar to counting by 10s verse someone trying to count to 1000 by 1s three or four years ago. If a skill is going to get improved to be easier it should not be just a vast difference.

And. If you are new or have low levels you are going to like updates that make things easier or faster. If you have are more experienced your not going to want them as much if you already put so much time into something. I am not saying its just you. Ivy, anyone with a low wc level would love this update but for the ones who put in hard work banked 150k willows its not fair to them.

The last sentence you said, the first players had it tough and now everything is growing easier and easier.

[AlchemyHawk]

"the first players had it tough and now everything is growing easier and easier."

That is something older players will have to deal with. Seriously do you expect all the skills to be just as hard now as they were in classic? Sure you had to do it a hard way now, but then that was normal so no one complained. If I get 99 woodcutting faster then you, does that make you hate the game? The simple fact is the game over-time will get easier in skills, other-wise people wouldn't use the update. The only other reasons are fun & money. Money is the same deal and as for fun not every update can be OMG I am going to play this even if it is only half the experience of something else.

[Jacob]

liek a lot of people, I hope for the release of a new skill! It would be cool.

[Air Wales]

Jacob, on 19 December 2009 - 08:26 PM, said:

liek a lot of people, I hope for the release of a new skill! It would be cool.

Rumours say it's the skinning skill. This is ofc not confirmed by Jagex.